Public Arena Discussion.

[Mycroft]

You made how much!!! Pt1.

Let's talk money.

Let's use Guy's 200:1 ratio.

Let me show you have to make vast profits for doing nothing and in the second part how to make equally as vast amounts by playing an entirely risk free game and to gain more year on year by alternating those two little plays.

The numbers involved are insane, so I'm going to rationalise them to make it easy, a sort of Monopoly Board game scale, incidentally the 'face' of Monopoly in the USA is none other than JPMorgan. When I've explained this to you that is both ironic and amusing.

In this game I play Banker, so tough, you're gonna lose sucka, big time.

I have £1,000,000 in Gold... I am in the monopoly position to print money based on that (you may think that the BoE and all the Banks of the World are Gov. Depts, they're not) so I can print money and I decide that I'll print £5,000,000 but I don't tell you, you are unlikely to find out so, I do it. I demand a 5% return for my efforts, so next year I add to the circulation another £250,000 and I keep doing it. Until finally there is £1trillion in Gold and £200trillion in circulation.

So it's 2014 (we've been playing for 200 years) and we need to increase the amount of money in 'circulation'* and that is (say) 2.5%...

* this means all forms of money, cash, credit etc.

The 2.5% is cash, but you don't receive it, that would be a disaster, that would mean I don't make money, you do!

So in confine it and charge for it, I confine it to the bottom line of the little banks and they charge highly for it.

The 2.5% is cash and cash only makes up 10% of all the money in the World... so £20tr. times 2.5% = 0.5tr.

The odd thing is that the loss made farming it out to banks is made up for by the payback system that exists to claw it back, so I get back £0.5tr. in profit to add to my £1tr.

Now, the system is inherently leaky and costly and the 'wages' are high, so the reality is that these days the returns are about 20% or about £0.1tr. but that comes back to just one point, the head of the beast, the US Fed Res. the rest goes to other private firms masquerading as similar institutions, Bank of England etc etc.

Now you can't keep buying Gold, there is a finite amount on this Planet.

So what can you do with this money???

The answer was once thought in the 80s/90s to be the answer to the continuing loss of other Country's Gold to the owners of the USFR. Gold Notes, you didn't actually get Gold but the promise of it, so the Rothschilds (see previous post) took these notes and future sums became immediately owed to them, so any real Gold came in and was stamped with the Country's logo and serial number, the account verified and then promptly melted down again and remarked with the Rothschild 'R' and 5 Arrows and serial number.

Then someone had the 'brilliant idea' that this was expensive and instead he thought that the USFR should issue Gold Notes to the Country's that want to store Gold with the USFR and say there is an obligation to buy the Gold at best rates to honour those Notes.

This was a total disaster in the making and it is still sitting there, the biggest Financial melt-down imaginable.

In just 20 years there are promissory Gold Notes that amount to 4 times the amount of Gold on the entire Planet.

So the system starts OK, but it has to snowball or to stop the snowball, you engender a crash, the first crash came just 50 years after the Rothschilds took control of BoE in 1815, the year is 1866 and it was about trying to add Silver to the Core Wealth, it failed, the result was that Silver lost it's shine and the crash was noted to be good for getting a sort of mild 'reset' for the BoE.

The lesson learned in 1866 was that if you overheat, a crash saves the system, it was the start of the Boom and Bust cycles we now cheerfully accept as part of the system, it stems from that date 1866.

Just after that the Boer War was another opportunity 'reset' and it is these two events 1866 and 1902 that lead to WW1, the 1929 crash, WW2 and the festering 'world war' since 1947 right through to today and Iraq.

In the next post I'll explain how you make real money and reset the system all in one go.

 

[Mycroft]

So, the let's relate this to the thread that spawned this one.

Germany's economic miracle of the 30s.

First another apology to Guy, I manipulated you into saying something (old habits die hard, sorry) I needed someone other than me to say something like the following, which is 100% correct, but I preferred a voice other than mine to say it, the phrase was "Indeed the UK and any other country could exist without any gold, since the 'faith' in now on the govt, which derives it's value from it's ability to take taxes from a large productive economy."

I'm grateful because this is the reason why National Socialism worked so well for Germany in the 30's, they stopped their equiv. of the BoE or the USFR from printing money and taking a huge skim off the efforts of those who work and instead the money previously used to line the pockets of the already wealthy it went to the state and then back to the people who work. This is National Socialism in a nutshell or as we were taught to describe it 'Nazism'.

It was the simple emancipation of slavery to provide wealth that was divided unfairly. In NS you are still chained, as we are in our present system, to each other, but you are no longer were chained to a Private Co. that took a huge skim of your efforts.

Germany grew quickly with no inflation and with huge benefits.

It did terrify those that lost their pound of flesh.

All the Deutschmarks were made worthless and instead each one replaced by Reichsmarks on a 1:1 basis.

He had to go, if those who were unaware of the Central Banking confidence trick caught wind of it, they might clamour for it to be gone too, Churchill was a traitor to this Country by taking the money given him by 'The Focus' and militating against Germany. He is the greatest traitor in our History as a result. Hero to Zero.

Let's cut to the USA and 1913 and Woodrow Wilson allows the USFR to be privatised (usual suspects own it) just like the BoE a decision that haunted him for the rest of his life, proclaiming on his death bed that he had betrayed every American in being persuaded to do so.

But the power was turned over and there was a huge fight over it, many great men in Congress had their reputations trashed, their lives threatened and livelihoods destroyed in the attempt to stop this dreadful step.

It is the most important date in US History, yet it is largely unknown to everyone.

We'll step nearly 50 years ahead and the USA has a new President, his name is John F. Kennedy, his is the son of Joe Kennedy Sr. good friend of Rockefeller and JKSr was given insider info on the manipulated crash of 1929 that meant before the crash he was worth $4m and after $100m, not bad in crash and just 3 years eh! JFK is brother to Joe Kennedy Jr. who died when the remote-controlled Liberator he was flying in 1944 blew up in mid-air just before the planned bail-out.

Kennedy became President because Rockefeller backed him, Kennedy was his man... or so R. thought, the problem was another brother called Bobby (later murdered by Sirhan Sirhan) Bobby was blessed with a good brain, the best by far in the family and his idea was to kill the USFR and bring back 'greenbacks' and he convinced JFK of the efficacy of this move.

This was a disaster! the Intl. Financiers had just got rid of Hitler and now Rockefeller himself had put a 'Nazi' into the most powerful position in the World and was about to deal them the greatest blow to their Business Model imaginable.

It is a bit of a shock for most of you I suppose, but JFK was in financial terms Hitler's Ghost.

He had to go and he was disposed of on November 22nd 1963 and just a short while later on June 6th 1968 was Bobby who would have made it to the Presidency and carried out the 'Master Plan'.

3 men who wanted to unchain mankind from a subtle form of slavery, all three, National Socialists, 'Nazis' to you and I.

Let's move on from that depressing bit of US history to a bit of English farce!

The ever avuncular, pipe smoking Harold Wilson, many rumours exist about whether or not MI5 bugged him, he was bugged, but the reason for it is not what you've been told, he was 'Blackmailing' the IMF, either they keep us afloat on reasonable terms or he will Nationalise the BoE, he'd go all 'Nazi' on their collective ahse.

For this bit of strong-arm tactics he was bugged. I doubt he had any intention to do so, but it worked, that is why we were getting such preferential rates when we were effectively Bankrupt.

Once Wilson went and that soft-headed fool Callaghan came to power the threat was gone and we were almost destroyed.

There were voices raised about Nationalising the BoE in 2007/8 but the message was corrupted to present the matter as being about the other High St. Banks, you can thank the Main Stream Media for that.

The last recession was entirely manufactured, manipulated the reasons were two-fold, the first the pressing need for a 'reset' but the second and unpublicised reason was the need to kerb China and gain a foothold there.

China ran an entirely National Socialist form of finance, that is why they were growing so fast, all the wealth went into regeneration with virtually no skimming (except the odd limo for the top bods) and this was/is the biggest market on the planet and the fastest growing and there was no 'pound of flesh' for Intl Finance...

So timing was important, I will post up something on how this was achieved and how China had to take some privatisation due to it and how now, China's growth has been slowed by the skimming... and how they are fighting back and may just bring down the entire cabal of Private National Banks in the process and then you'll see why the next Great War is planned to be between Russia and China.

 

[Mycroft]

Did the Banking system get away with the crash, well largely they did.

In the end the 'truth' of National Socialism won out, the real bank of final resort was us, the people who propped them up, the Privately owned National Banks walked away from the problem, despite both printing and dictating our money supply in the non-cash World.

Plus they also managed to finagle the Govt's around the World to go for Quantative Easing (allowing them to do exactly the same thing that caused the crash) so they make money on the recovery.

People are not wise to the game and made no fuss.

Throughout it all the only targets were those who themselves played little or no part in either the collapse but instead were just the visible part of the system, meanwhile the USFR and the BoE were untouched, almost sacrosanct.

Except in one place... a place that was taken off the Worlds press rosters, they Jailed 200 bankers including the prime movers in their own National System tied to the Privatised National Banks, the story was taken off the roster of almost every Western Press headline for this reason alone, the people were fighting back and their Govt. was on their side.

The nation is the oldest Democracy in the World, it was Iceland.

They went the National Socialist (Nazi) route.

They were in far deeper trouble than us if they had not taken the National Socialist route they would still be in deep trouble and the Country effectively taken over (it was indeed the plan) they were in a far worse position than Ireland.

But Ireland was under huge pressure from the BoE not to take the Icelandic route and so they suffered, really suffered.

The Irish people were not told of the alternative of National Socialism, their Govt. was too weak and bowed under pressure from the BoE to even suggest it and anyone that did (there were a few) were shut out of any discussion to which the Irish people were aware of.

So compare Ireland to Iceland... both had a bad first year, Iceland weeded out those that bought them into an unequal share of the crash and jailed them, the Irish didn't, Iceland suspended payments and then the World of Fractional banking demanded all their funds back (ironic really, that a fractional system that itself relies on nobody asking for all it's money back made such a demand, but they have no shame) Iceland rested the controls from the Associative National Bank and controlled it's own money.

But that first year Iceland and Ireland both suffered roughly equally, but after that as the 'effects of National Socialism took control things turned 'round rapidly for Iceland.

Sadly for the duped Irish that was not the case.

Just 18 months after that first year Iceland had paid off it's indigenous debts and continued paying the fractional sums to the BoE and other Privately owned National Banks.

They have continued this model and it seems they won't give it up and the 'Icelandic Miracle' is hidden from us, just in case we get 'ideas'. Ireland is burdened with a crippling debt still despite all the 'help' given them in order to not make the comparison so stark and obvious.

But if you look at the bottom line Iceland is off the hook and doing really well, their debt is a fraction of what it was and they are a safe-haven now for finance, because they are no longer are they awash with fake money, Ireland is still up to it's neck in systemic debt still and only has a controlled recovery ensuring the Privately owned National Banks around the World get their pound of flesh.

Iceland is rapidly becoming a problem to the PoNB's, their strength is unfettered by the skim, it is where, if the sh't goes down, any sensible man should aim to make his safe haven.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

A word about this 'skim' it is not some small fraction, it is HUGE.

Every Nation's people wants advancement or enhancement and this is achieved by an 'excess', this is not a Balance of Payments matter it's a matter of how much profit in using the Core Wealth to Resell Value is retained, what part of that 200:1 ratio (that Guy so kindly pointed out for us all) goes to advancement and enhancement, well very little about 5%... compare that the only model for which we have clear figures, Iceland.

Their National Socialist model allows about a 25:1 (The Hitler/Hess model is thought to have ran at that figure too!) and the returns are >90% to the state and <10% in maintaining the construction.

So that simple reality is why they have bounced back and outstrip us all, not only us at the 'head' of the European recovery but every other nation in the World, including China.

Round-robin skimming takes all the goodness out of an economy.

I feel huge pity for the Irish, if they'd had just a little more gumption and they listened to Vincent Browne who in a normal World would be a National Hero.
See him doing his best here:- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDXJPvZoxzg

We, to our shame, didn't even have a Vincent Browne. But as the 'Head of the Beast' for all the PoNB's across the World is the BoE. Anyone that might have asked such awkward questions was bought off or stifled totally.

There is another reason, and I've written the words here repeatedly, the word is 'Nazi' anyone calling for Financial National Socialism is tarred with that soubriquet and because the vast majority of the World (and in particular here) sees only Jackboots and Death at the slightest mention of the word the idea is 'untouchable' because of what surrounds it.

That is why I started the 'Two Great Wars and Nothing Learned' thread, it is my little, tiny, attempt to show how manipulation of History and historical truth keeps a corrupt banking system in place.

 

[Mycroft]

Banking and the EU and Sovereignty.

As we can see the real power of the money supply right across the globe is in the hands of a Private Companies.

The 'King Pin' in it all and the real 'special relationship' we have with the US is that the BoE still hold a larger number of cards than the Federal Reserve, the sums of money are odd and this is why the '200' part of Guys ratio is administered by the USFR and the '1' is the soul remit of the BoE, the result is that the objectives are made here, but the means of achieving and the route to those objectives are entirely the remit of the US... and THAT is our special relationship, nothing else, don't kid yourself it is anything else.

Nathan Rothschild ensured that this was the 'natural' order of things after his shenanigans back in 1815.

The natural question is "Could we or can we break free of this slavery?"

The answer is Yes, but timing is everything, in the normal running of things the answer is No...

Every 'crisis' presents the chance to topple the vile and there are more and more crises presenting themselves every day.

The best way, and the way I intend to try, is to grab the tail of the coming 'Anti-war' protests, the best way remains not to go head-on for bringing down the vilest in our society but to have the issue catapulted forward from an already moving issue, similar to the manner in which Hitler tagged the Versailles Treaty and half way through took the National Socialist route.

Coups, like humour, is all about timing.

 

[Mycroft]

...and as if on cue the French are in trouble.

They gave away their primary sovereignty over their Finances by joining the ESCB (European System of Central Banks) and side-lining the Banque de France.

They now have two tiers of banking, each taking a skim.

We're heading that way, we keep giving away bit of our independence and the result will be the BoE will still steer the PoNB's and cash in here but we'll pay yet another set of skimmers that sit on top of that cabal of thieves.

 

[Lighty]

Keep it coming, I am getting educated :thumbsup:

 

[Guy]

Keep it coming, I am getting educated :thumbsup:

I'm enjoying what is clearly a mixture of fact and fiction.

For one thing, the Bank Of England was nationalised in 1946 (by the Bank of England Act 1946) and is absolutely owned by the Govt.

 

[Mycroft]

I'm enjoying what is clearly a mixture of fact and fiction.

For one thing, the Bank Of England was nationalised in 1946 (by the Bank of England Act 1946) and is absolutely owned by the Govt.

I'm surprised you fell for that one Guy!!!

In 1947 Attlee simply bought the 'stock' (effectively the Building!) but they had no voting rights or membership of the main steering Committee and it remained a Private Company, the 'Nationalisation' was a sham.

The BoE has since 1977 been a Reverse Owned Entity, in the full control of the BoEN (Bank of England Nominees) so this BoEN has 100 £1 shares, so effectively the £11million paid for the BoE by us was bought back as a Private Company called BoEN for that £100.

The period from 1946 to 1977 was 'covered' by Royal Charter and the original shareholders giving Royal Household immunity on their prerogative and are still protected by the Secret Service just as they have been since 1939.

It was a crafty financial 'vehicle' to fob off the newly elected Labour Gov, Attlee was not smart enough to see the scam.

So, in short it is privately owned it always has been, it was 'faux' privatised to appease an ebullient Labour Govt. who gave the shareholders £11million to go away, the money was pocketed and the Bank sailed it's merry way as it had before thanks to Royal Prerogative, then in 1977 it was bought for £100 as there were fear again that the financial meltdown of that might cause the Labour Govt. to do it right this time and it went beyond the reach of Govt. using again the Royal Prerogative to do so.

When after 30 years the given immunity for filing records in Co Hse ceased, BoEN then officially became dormant as a financial body as it has ever since, the farce was complete.

£11 million and then bought back (although actually never really sold) for £100 30 years later, how much of a scam do you want!

Come on Guy, you must have known about this, it's quite common knowledge.

Earlier in this thread I mentioned Harold Wilson strong-arming the IMF, when that soft-headed Callaghan was in power he let the BoE go beyond any Govt. reach.

 

[Mycroft]

It only takes a few seconds to realise the BoE 'Nationalisation' was a sham...

£11million quid... just the title rights to the Gold in the vaults at the time was 10 times that figure.

It's an Austin Powers moment... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTmXHvGZiSY

 

[Guy]

Mycroft - please prove your theory about the Boe being private (which is so central to your theories) and therefore disprove this:

http://prosperityuk.com/2011/10/investigating-the-bank-of-england-nominees-limited/

Show us specific hard facts, not rumours.

I've enjoyed the WW2 stuff and find it mainly credible, but this thread is full of far too much I disagree with, so I'd love to be proven wrong with verifiable facts.

 

[Mycroft]

Mycroft - please prove your theory about the Boe being private (which is so central to your theories) and therefore disprove this:

http://prosperityuk.com/2011/10/investigating-the-bank-of-england-nominees-limited/

Show us specific hard facts, not rumours.

I've enjoyed the WW2 stuff and find it mainly credible, but this thread is full of far too much I disagree with.

Interesting read... but only because it presents a false issue and then answers it.

First... The use of secret in inverted commas is foolish, it was secret for a long time, just like GCHQ and Bilderburg, but people found out and it stopped being secret, by using inverted commas the writer is setting out his stall.

Profits do not and never have flowed into BoEN,no-one except this chap has ever suggested anything like that, the first reference of that idea I can find stems from a similar article this chap put up.

So his 2nd paragraph is a prior conditioning one.

...and the rubbish continues unabated, to quote the BoE's own website as some sort of proof or evidence is the writings of a numbskull. If you are investigating something, quoting from the blurb given you by those you are purporting to investigate is the action of a congenital twerp and that is being polite, I quote:-
See the statement on the Bank’s website where it states:

As a public organisation, wholly-owned by Government, and with a significant public policy role, the Bank is accountable to Parliament. The Bank’s Annual Report and Accounts are laid before Parliament each year before they are made available publicly. The principal means of accountability for the Bank is via the House of Commons Treasury Committee.(2)

That apparently amounts to the extent of his research. He should work in Rotherham.

Next... the question is not what is the “Bank of England Nominees Limited” it is what WAS the “Bank of England Nominees Limited” and why did it exist at all.

...and I've explained that accurately, to use Banking terms it was a 'vehicle' to ensure that the entire mechanism remains in the hands of a private group who still make the huge gains from manipulating for their own purposes the money supply.

But the biggest single 'killer' test is simple, if you look at the Icelandic Systems accounts, they have something called Returned Funds, these are in a National Socialist system what in PoNB's are profits, but the profits are private so don't appear on PoNB anywhere, RF's in Iceland's Accounts go straight back into the system fund.

The BoE accounts have no RF content at all, nor does the Public Accounts records show any substantial receipts from the BoE ever since 1816. When they became Loans... Loans, sort of gives the game away doesn't it! lol

Now why would that be?

Is the BoE rubbish at making money?

That would be unlike every other National Bank in the World.

No, it makes money and despite an official face, it is in all important aspects a PoNB.

 

[Guy]

But the biggest single 'killer' test is simple, if you look at the Icelandic Systems accounts, they have something called Returned Funds, these are in a National Socialist system what in PoNB's are profits, but the profits are private so don't appear on PoNB anywhere, RF's in Iceland's Accounts go straight back into the system fund.

The BoE accounts have no RF content at all, nor does the Public Accounts records show any substantial receipts from the BoE ever since 1816. When they became Loans... Loans, sort of gives the game away doesn't it! lol

Mycroft,

Every time I produce something that refutes your claims, you simply ignore it and fail to provide any proof of your statements.

Now you claim above that the BoE declares no profits. Here's their annual accounts, they are black and white, the profit is clear. It is also clearly stated there and elsewhere that they are paid to the Treasury.



I have repeatedly backed up any facts I make with proof, you never do and simply swerve the argument into new areas when challenged. I am happy to have an intellectual argument on a subject that interests me and that I have a small amount of knowledge on, but I will not debate against unsubstantiated rumours, it's like fencing with smoke.

Until you start providing some clear factual evidence for your claims, I will withdraw from this thread and let you carry on with your conjecture.

 

[Mycroft]

You're looking in the wrong direction.

That is a front facing aspect that is what most people will see and accept on face value.

The BoEN was replaced by another Company consisting of 100 £1 shares it is the BoEAPFF

I've just found after 20 minutes, a payment of £1.9 billion pounds for printing the service dressed up as 'interest'.

"As at 28 February 2014 the Company (BoEAPFF) had borrowed £375.3 billion (2013: £375.3 billion). Interest on this loan amounted to £1.9 billion (2013: £1.7 billion)." Why?

If it is State owned then generated money cannot bear an interest charge, interest is only something to cover a loss (degradation) through a stable asset, but this money can be generated at will. So interest is self defeating, most especially given the Headline remit of the BoEAPFF.

There is no interest created by a true State Bank when funding sums are generated, that only happens if it has a profit motive, again something contrary to the Headline remit.

I can only track to £277 million, returned through HMRC, but I'll take a sharper look tomorrow.

Hopefully I'll find the £1.6 billion in the BoE accounts as it is shown as paid.

Effectively the 'front' BoE has a QE Company, it has put out into field markets £375.3 billion backed by the treasury.

BoE:- http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/Documents/annualreport/2014/boeaccounts.pdf

BoEAPFF:- http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/Documents/other/markets/apf/boeapfannualreport1407.pdf

At this moment there seems to be £1 billion not shown due to 'exemptions' given to the BoE only (mentioned in the Accounts pre-amble), by-passing normal accounting rules both Home and International (IFR).

Additionally I want to check further accumulative Hedging Delta of £1 billion since inception, why?

It's a zero financial loss operation again something only a profit driven entity would do.

I should have a hour or so tomorrow to have a proper look.

 

[Mycroft]

What you must do Guy is provide an answer to a very simple fact, clearly visible in the accounts.

Why, if the BoE is a Nationalised Business and not a Private Business, why does it charge interest on generated money.

If the BoE were entirely part of the body of the state then there is no reason to, that is simply charging yourself to start the ball rolling for the financial game of pin-ball.

There is a cost for printing in the accounts (£2m) and the rest of the money is simply a computer program extension and a click of the mouse. (in the past it was a quill and parchment)

There is no profit in any State charging itself interest, it is in fact totally counter-productive and never done.

If, however, the business is a Private affair then indeed there has to be an interest element as the money is not the primary starting point, the Bonds that allowed the production of money are.

This is an important 'barrier' between the State and the Private Banking Industry.

In a NatSoc system the bonds and generation are all the same process, in a PoNB these two items are separated and the latter incurs interest.

That barrier, once crossed, is the point at which Interest is rightly charged.

The problem with the General Public and almost all Banking staff is that they are immersed in the idea of 'interest' it is universally accepted as a necessity, the problem is that there is a point where it is utterly ridiculous to impose it and almost no-one has given the matter sufficient thought or consideration as to when that point is.

The State has no reason to impose a charge on itself that will only lead it into a never ending spiral of money production in greater and greater sums to pay itself off, it is stupid to do so and it is never done.

Hitler and Hess knew this, the PM of Iceland knew this and both systems don't do it and both peoples reaped the rewards as a result.

Guy, if you are saying that our system is a NatSoc system then I suggest that the calls for hanging the bankers at the top should be raised again and turned into a revolt as that level of incompetence would make them traitors to the entire UK's populace.

But of course, it's not a NatSoc system, nor some sort of hybrid, it's a PoNB, it charges interest on the converted Bonds and THAT is what is important in the accounts.

If I'm wrong, contradict me but you must explain the 'efficacy' of charging myself interest on my own labour, which on a personal level is what this means.

 

[Guy]

Can you please be specific about what interest you mean, charged by whom to where and by what means?

As for charging yourself interest, this is very common in related groups of companies where they are all have common ownership, it's designed to avoid cross-subsidy via the transferrance of funds at non-market rates. I have lent or borrowed money between myself or my companies on many occasions. Indeed it would be considered possible tax avoidance if you did not charge interest.

 

[Mycroft]

Can you please be specific about what interest you mean, charged by whom to where and by what means?

As for charging yourself interest, this is very common in related groups of companies where they are all have common ownership, it's designed to avoid cross-subsidy via the transferrance of funds at non-market rates. I have lent or borrowed money between myself or my companies on many occasions. Indeed it would be considered possible tax avoidance if you did not charge interest.

BoEAPFF charge the BoE. (see accounts links) called 'borrowing' but is in fact materialising. Both entities are supposedly 'nationalised'.

The example I gave was to illustrate the utter stupidity of charging yourself interest on the production of wealth, it can be taxed, but you cannot possibly charge yourself interest, you can work harder producing more money but you can't charge interest to yourself because only you would pay yourself, which in the realms of utter pointlessness would take some beating.

The BoE if it is State owned in reality would be doing the same, it would only create inflation at core.

The ball of interest rolls from the moment the generation of virtual money enters the private domain and becomes effectively real.

So in your example the collection of this mythical tax due would be paid with what? More virtual money? It is not a rhetorical question, it is what you would have right here, right now in the UK if the BoE was in reality nationalised.

You are again applying the principles of 'real' money (because that was the business you were in) with the generation of virtual money which requires a totally different view-point if it is to be benign and not an upward spiral of ever increasing core virtual production.

It is I accept a paradigm shift in your own ingrained thinking, but step away from the 'real' world you worked in and step across into the virtual World of converted Bonds (issued on the guarantee of mortgaging the entire population to keep striving) that become cash for that to actually happen, the only increase in the production of virtual money should come from the Returned Funds element that you see in every NatSoc financial regime, to put in an interest element is categoric proof of a PoNB.

There is no market until the bridge from virtual to 'real' occurs, so again by your own explanation you must accept that the market in the UK starts with the BoEAPFF which makes it a PoNB.

 

[Guy]

BOEAPFF is owned by the BoE which is owned by Govt (already proven).



BOEAPFF was created deliberately to do 'quantitiative easing' which is the artificial increase of money supply and the artificial purchase of govt debt. This is well known, public and a clear economics technique. It is printing money to buy bonds. All notional costs and profits go to/from the UK Treasury (proven above). The real economic costs are a risk to inflation and devaluation of currency.

If your sole assertion is that the use of interest makes it somehow private then you are simply wrong.

I am very open to deciding if your 'claims' are true or not, but you need to prove your assertions with facts, not simply with more assertions, which is how this debate is progressing.

 

[Mycroft]

Yeah, I read that.

The sums returned to HMT amounted to 41.3 billion, but this was only returns from reducing the sum virtualised from £416bn to £375bn. So no RF content there as that is just 'controlled normalising' of the situation, not a profit.

But the accounts show £1.9billion in 'interest' and the sum given to HMRC was £277million which is the only RF content I can find in both documents linked.

Interest is the main subject of interest for anyone looking.

It is the only smoking gun that can be readily found, BoEAPFF is the holder of virtual money, virtual money that only becomes real when it can be utilised, given to clearing and it is only at that moment that it can attract interest, because from that moment it can do 'work' in the form of capitalisation.

Until it crosses into the realm of being capable of doing work, it is not real, that is why it is virtual money, virtual money=bonds and vice versa.

They are quite like other bonds, that are direct to market to be purchased for safety reasons and do attract interest, but again, they only do so if purchased. If unsold any Bond issue not taken up bears no interest, because that would be insane, they may be re-priced, but at no time until they are bought and 'do work' do they have any element at all of interest they just die or are sold off cheap, but the acquisition by profit driven entities is what makes them have an interest element.

By the same token, for interest to be present means that BoEAPFF has to be part of a profit driven contract, the money is doing work, it is making money for persons unknown, the accounts have special exemptions for being in any real sense 'full' so as to obscure the reality, the BoEN was a reverse ownership entity, the BoEAPFF is a financial vehicle with a different purpose, the purpose is to maintain the façade of Nationalised status.

 

[Mycroft]

If it walks like a Duck, quacks like a Duck, and swims like a Duck, then it's a Duck.

The reality is that by using QE either in the way the USFR does or The BoE is no different to giving an addict a bucket full Crack Cocaine.

There has to be a come down and it can't be done without deflation.

Those of us reading this will have to make plans for the DowJones falling from a peak of around 17250 right down to 8000 by 2017, this is inevitable, may be a 10,000 point drop in less than two and a half years, each year a 4500/5000 point drop starting next year. The UK will suffer a similar crash on the same time scale, the final resting place for the FTSE will be after a peak of about 7100 and will lose 2000 points in each year to fall to 3000 points.

That means that every reader who has savings and investments is going to lose 60% of their worth.

This is inevitable. It cannot be avoided.

If you believe that a 'soft landing' is possible, you have been fooled, this plane has no Undercarriage and you can't land softly without one, it has to crash and burn on landing.

Thousands of Businesses will be destroyed more than half the Business you know of will go by the end of 2018, size or even liquidity will not save them.

The rise of the Indices (that effectively take the temperature of a nature) is again just simple overheating, but this present rise is not real, it is for the benefit of a few, it is a 'get yourself in order' period prior to the crash, the crash landing of the economies across the World.

Please don't think that having savings will mean you're safe, this time the crash will kill Banks at Source, you may have £12,000,000 in on that piece of paper but it will be worth £85,000 this time 'round.

That is all that anyone here reading this will be worth, all of us in cash terms, your pile of money will be worth only that, if your business that is running on a to-and-fro monthly banking credit is dead, it will cease.

The Working class will be hit too but only marginally, you simply join them in the mire, you, the great ranks of the Middle class will all become chavs.

You're going to get angry, but as the net will be DDOS trashed and the mobile network interrupted by the same means and fuel will be priced out of the reach of most people most people will not be able to organise anything and protest will be nigh on impossible.

If you aren't actively preparing for this right now then you are going to be a victim of it. It is as simple as that.

The past is screaming at us, but we're not listening, we're listening to a falsified and cosmeticised past and many aren't even listening to that unless it's on the TV.

The cascade of Wars across the Globe this and next year will be the given cause for this and the hope is that the lie will quell a lot of revolt.

The coming 're-set' will be a biggie.

 

[Mycroft]

Conclusion.

If you've read the above, ratchet'ing across your mind is the idea that I'm a Conspiracy Theorist.

In fact I've been accused of such on this site, but that is entirely due to ignorance... it has to be said it really is ignorance and shallow thinking.

It is shallow thinking because the reality is played out right in front of such accusers very very often. In fact they, and probably you, participate often in the self-same sort of 'conspiracy' if view with the same ignorance.

How so?

Well, look at it this way... say, in your own working life, an opportunity in Business arises, a 'new wrinkle' as I call them, and you see it. It will make you rich and you arrange your affairs to make the most of it. You won't be alone in seeing this opportunity, there will be others and together you all go forward to exploit this new Business opportunity. Now, no sane person would ever call that a conspiracy, I have coined the term 'Orchestrated Exploitation' for such a cohesive and seemingly collective move. Very often an entire Industry comes from it we will usually form an Association to control it. It's not a conspiracy. But that is because you are not ignorant of the principle and it is just good ol' Capitalism.

So when a 'the fool' screams "Awww you're just another conspiracy theorist" it is time to pity him, for he's a damned fool.

The World isn't in the thrall of some huge conspiracy, it is however, in the thrall of an opportunist and orchestrated exploitation and just as in an Orchestra not everyone is playing the same note, the 'string section' and the 'percussion section' (finance and war) play off one another, but don't connive.

There is no 'conductor' this is an orchestra that only needs motivation and the prime motivation, the only 'conductors' as such are wealth and power.

The problem is whereas in Business it is largely benign and often beneficial and appears in the overall benefit of wealth creation, in areas of the state this natural exploitation can only result in the incursion into people lives it is 'power' that is the conductor.

What we have today is, that for the first time in History, we have 'power' overwhelming 'wealth' in conducting the orchestra, the natural antagonism is now so skewed in favour of the State that the huge input from the state into the financial markets (QE) is distorting it massively, the USA, the UK and Europe are allowing and even forcing the matter of QE into an already fragile financial world.

Remember I mentioned how people will exploit and opportunity, well this change in the fundamental way the World finance works has opportunities for those in high places to do exactly what everyone of us would do if we had the chance in our own field of activity, make money from it and they are doing so.

They may conspire a bit, it is a small coterie of people who probably due to sheer wealth will likely know at least a decent number but greed will make them hold cards close to their chest.

So there is a 'new world order' but it's not a conspiracy, it's just 'us'... humans doing what we do best... exploitation, it is the 'power' element that is now being exploited by 'wealth' element and that is a recipe for disaster.

Oddly the result is exactly what I want to happen, although the 'fallout' from doing it this way is horrific, the result is to track down Guys 200:1 market ratio down to a more controllable model that runs 40-50:1 but without the benefits going to those at the bottom and filtering up, it will still be a top down scheme and more crashes will be inevitable.

The only hope for every person likely to read this is if when the next crash happens we demand a genuine National Socialist based World Financial market based entirely on a 'bottom up' financial advancement model, that is the only way to build a solid foundation for the future.

The recent 'top heavy' model can only be propped up by wars and strife.

Because this discussion is not even on anyone's agenda anywhere in the World the opportunity is going to pass us by without being taken up and we will be doomed to a World filled with wars, pointless death and feeling of despair and hopelessness for generation after generation.